Browsing Category Angenieux 17-68mm f/2.2

Tests and films with the Angenieux Type L2 17-68mm f/2.2 and Angenieux Type L3 17-68mm f/2.2 c-mount zoom lens.

GH1 with C-mount Zoom Test

Welcome to COMPONENTGEEK! If you like what you see please stay tuned and subscribe! Enjoy!

My goal with this test was to focus on whether c-mount zoom lenses in general are worth using with the GH1 for film. There have been a few posts on the net by still photographers but not many tests from filmmakers. Most results have been so so though.This is mainly because c-mount zoom lenses generally have a small image circle and do not fill the image sensor of the GH1. So you get the Peep Hole or looking though the lens of a barrel effect.

So here’s the bad with c-mount zoom lenses:

Image circle smaller than sensor
Vignetting and smearing at the edges of the frame
Resolution loss
Wide focal lengths have very small image circles, nothing usable until 25mm- 35mm and higher focal lengths
Depending on the lens, you may need to machine it to fit the c-mount adapter in order to achieve infinity focus

Alright that’s a lot of not so great reasons especially for those like myself who are filmmakers unless you have a stylistic piece you want that image circle to fill that entire sensor through out the zoom range.

So why waste the time.
Because I’m stubborn and I want to make it work anyway.
So I thought I’d test it out.

The first lens that I’ll be testing is the Angenieux Type L2/L3 1:2.2/17-68 c-mount zoom lens. It is not perfect by any means and has many of the problems that I pointed out that are the downsides with c-mount zooms but over all I was pleasantly surprised to see some really good results. The clip that is posted here are just straight up mundane doc style footage. Nothing fancy. Just cut and dry. So please excuse some of the shakiness and random footage or commentary by me at the end. I didn’t have my tripod and am still testing out my own variation of a Gorillapod and a Noga Arm called a Gorilla Noga.

The footage was shot in my stomping grounds Chinatown North and Chinatown proper in Philadelphia. I used no ND filters just the lens and shot only 1080/24p with a shutter of 50 and 720/30p with a shutter of 50 as well. All clips had pull down removed using compressor.

Obviously,when using the GH1 digital 2x setting, you are getting an image that is cropped with resolution loss but the results are better than expected. I think scaling up the image and cropping out the vignetting and the “Peep Hole Effect” in Final Cut Pro seems to help with a better image but I have to do a few more tests to be sure. I think despite the image resolution loss it would be very usable for HD presentations on your HD Flatscreen tv or local indy community film screening. For those who are still putting out SD material which we all still do, the footage will be very usable.

Here are a few pluses for using zoom lenses on a GH1:

You can find c-mount zoom lenses that are faster, many can find at f/2.2, f/1.9 even f/1.2!!
Many c-mount zoom lenses are smaller and lighter than the stock lens especially tv lenses
You can focus much more easily with a small c-mount zoom than the stock lens
Some are still super cheap!! You can find many c-mount zoom security lenses or tv lenses for $50-$100
Despite the resolution loss you can still use the digital 2x and get some nice results or shoot wide with the peep hole circle showing and enlarge and crop in post and get better results.
So you lose your wide shots with the digital 2x zoom, just step back farther when you are shooting!

Angenieux Zoom Type L2 and Type L3 lens

As promised here are some initial impressions of the Angenieux Zoom Type L2 and Type L3 1:2.2/17-68 C-Mount lenses.

The Angenieux zoom Type L2 and Type L3 lenses are very hard to find these days but well worth having as part of your GH1 arsenal if you can grab one. Many of these older c-mount cine lenses were used on Bolex and Bell and Howard 16mm cameras. I was fortunate enough to pick up a Type L2 and Type L3 Angenieux zoom and despite the fact that the image circle of the lens is smaller than the sensor and you do get the “peep hole effect” and a bit of vignetting, there are still some great things going for these older lenses. As far as I can tell from the recent tests both the Type L2 and Type L3 Angenieux zoom lenses had the same image circle size, bokeh and sharpness.

(+)

At wide open F/2.2, the lens is tack sharp, much faster than the 14-140 stock lens at F/4
The small size. This little zoom lens fits inside my pants pocket! Much lighter than the 14-140 stock lens and makes the GH1 feel like a toy with the extremely light weight feel of the Angenieux
The beautiful Angenieux bokeh, creamy and lovely especially at higher focal lengths to display that shallow DOF.
With the GH1′s 2x Digital Zoom, you move beyond the vignetting and get a nice usable picture.

(-)

As was brought to my attention from the Indy Pros at DVXUser Barry Green and Illya Friedman, there are image degradation issues with the digital zoom engaged even at 2x. Illya Friedman who runs Hot Rod Cameras informed me that “Extended Optical Zoom is just windowing the sensor, effectively lowering the number of pixels used to create the image by about 75%.”
Obviously, no autofocus and image stabilization capabilities so you can’t really use this lens on a steadicam or for tracking shots.
With the GH1′s 2x Digital Zoom engaged in movie mode, camera shake increases with magnification so you must use a tripod or DV stabilizer for decent results.
With the GH1′s 2x Digital Zoom engaged in movie mode, the focal lengths double from 17-68 to 34-136.
This particular cine lens need a Series 7 step ring to use ND filters.

(>)

If Panasonic could give us .5x, 1x, and 1.5x as an option for the Digital Zoom in movie mode and Extended Digital Zoom in picture mode I think it would help with the flexibility to use these c-mount lenses with much greater control. The Angenieux Zoom Type L2 & Type L3 with out the use of the digital zoom feature at 17mm is a little shy of filling the sensor. With the ability to use a 1x instead of a 2x optical zoom we’d have the ability to have a wider frame with perhaps less camera magnification jitters and image degradation.
So far, I can only use creative motion picture mode on the GH1 because it is the only mode that I can engage the digital zoom feature. Again, most c-mount zooms and primes under 25mm will have a small image circle and vignetting so in order to use these lenses you need to engage the digital zoom in movie mode. It would be nice if Panasonic allowed us to use the optical zoom in picture mode for still camera use currently I could not engage the extended digital zoom in any of the picture mode settings.
Maybe someone out there could make a c-mount teleconverter or reducer that has a large enough image circle to fit the sensor so that we would not need to engage the Gh1′s optical zoom. That would be the ideal.

Over all, the GH1 has literally breathed new life into these older cine lenses. In the beginning, it was the G1 users capturing amazing pictures with these c-mount lenses but now that the GH1 has hit the scene, many are using these cine lenses for what they were intended for and that is film. As stated in other forums and blogs, the digital zoom and extended optical zoom features do degrade resolution on the GH1 but with the right elements in place, these lenses are great fun and you can get some really nice images. For some the image degradation and resolution loss will not be acceptable for others this may be a chance to bring retro cine flair to your new GH1 and you may find these images will work for your needs.

So despite the resolution drawbacks, the Angenieux Type L2 and Type L3 are great for the on the go casual shooter who wants that “Angenieux look” with out having to carry a huge lens and who can sacrifice some resolution loss. You’ll still need to step back to get that wider shot but for those who want that shallow DOF there’s still some nice bokeh and sharpness in this lens that will be a great addition for narrative work and even talking heads documentary shots. For those wanting to find a good deal on these older lenses, you might want to go to local camera shops first, explore the ones that still carry 16mm camera gear before going on ebay. Just within the last six months these lenses have all jumped up in price so be prepared to pay at least $400 for this lens if not more.

Thanks again to Barry Green and Illya Friedman for providing me with updated information concerning the Digital Zoom features on the GH1.

Angenieux C-mount Zoom Lens – Neoscene

One of the challenges with working with AVCHD is removing pulldown. If you do any kind of ENG work or are on a tight deadline using the GH1 is definitely not for you. You have to do a few things before starting to edit– pull down removal. So if you have a little time on your hands you can use Compressor, VoltaicHD, or Cineform Neoscene to get true 24P. My previous post used Compressor which looked pretty good but there was still some remnant frame jitters and the 1080P looked a little lighter than the original footage that I shot with. So I decided to try out Cineform Neoscene and these were my initial impressions.

(+)

Faster to do pull down than compressor but not by much.
Gives you the option for realtime editing with the Cineform (MOV) codec
No left over frames and weird frame jitters
Very good at fixing Chroma issues on the GH1
Overall great contrast and sharpness and does a really nice job of retaining the original clip

(-)

Program is still a little buggy, it occasional crashed on me when I tried to close the program
There are no instructions, you have to search the net to figure out specific details or call or e-mail Cineform support

Overall, in terms of using c-mount zoom lenses on the GH1 my assessment is they are very usable and depending on your needs you can get some great results. Be aware there is some resolution and image degradation with the digital zoom engaged. Do not do the 4x digital zoom that looks horrible. 2x digital zoom is passable footage by some and for others it may still be quite impressive. For pulldown removal Cineform Neoscene seems to be the best at doing this process and is worth the additional cost. You can go to Videoguys and pick up Neoscene for $99.95 and if you are new to purchasing stuff at videoguys you get a $10 discount just for signing up so that saves you a little bit. Looking at both the compressor and neoscene footage, I would recommend to follow these guidelines when shooting with a c-mount zoom lens:

Shooting with the “Peep Hole” effect and cropping and scaling your footage in post will keep the sharpness and color rendition of the original footage on your wide shots. If you scale for that close-up of course you’ll see image degradation but for a little scaling to fill the sensor frame seems to hold up pretty well.
When using Digital 2x on the GH1, transcoding AVCHD footage with compressor seems to affect image color and sharpness, just a little bit though. The image is a little darker, colors are a little crushed, and you do see a little softness. When transcoding with Neoscene, I do not see a change in color from the original footage. Overall, the 2x digital zoom footage is still very usable despite image resolution loss. Be aware that you’ll probably be having to do some work in post to match footage.
In 2x Digital Zoom- there is no image stabilization when using manual lenses. You’ll have a lot of camera shake as you saw in my own footage. Use a tripod for those tight shots whenever possible.
I would definitely use the Angenieux Type L2/L3 c-mount zoom for still photography. It’s a lot of fun because of the small size you can get some fun results with out worrying about camera shake.

Here is the Neoscene Angenieux Type L2/L3 1:2.2/17-68 C-mount Zoom Lens footage 1080/24P (I could not use the 720/30P footage in Neoscene).